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Orthar

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Posts : 25
Join date : 2009-05-12

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PostSubject: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptySun May 31, 2009 2:01 pm

Quote :
What we're looking for in potential member:


* We only accept applicants over the age of 18.
* We are only recruiting ACTIVE lvl 80 players who don't choose pvp over raiding.
* People who understand their class and their role in raids.
* People who are willing to learn and improve quickly.
* Have a friendly and mature attitude towards people around you. This also includes players outside Qui Vive.
* No end game experience required, but having some raid experience be a very big plus. If you haven't done an encounter before, read up on it preparing yourself.
* Let us know if you'll be absent at a raid.
* Keep the AFKs during a raid at a minimum.

After joining you will spend the next week or two as a trial member. After your trial period, our officers will determine if you meet our skill requirements and can successfully integrate with us. Being on Trial also gives you the time to see if you fit in the guild and get along with other members. As stated above we want to create a relationship between the players.
If we should decide that you do not meet our standards you will be given a reason at the end of trial period and will be asked to leave the guild.

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I just copied this from the guild requirements and I feel the bolded points have been severely lacking in some raids. I am also responsible for this, noone has been clean. I just hope that we will continue with a strong focus on clearing raids, rather than a few wipes every run on bosses we oneshotted before. And that we will work together as a team, rather than blaming eachother.

Take this as constructive criticism, not as bashing/flaming.
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Saurfang

Saurfang

Posts : 32
Join date : 2009-05-12
Age : 29
Location : Netherlands

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptySun May 31, 2009 3:13 pm

Can't help but notice that some people aren't playing for the guild and progress and self improvement, but for loot.
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Roshen
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Roshen

Posts : 99
Join date : 2009-05-12
Age : 35
Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptySun May 31, 2009 4:20 pm

So what a point of your topic Orhar apart from copying guild "do you take what it stand for?".
We had a very bad week on people activity, also same goes to raid prepearness. Xarthan is actually trying to wake you up, since i am by myself will not do that, 3 years of raid leading and guild bring me to my current position, however i wasnt never harsh and shouting on vent really, i do realise its a game at the end and not worth of "my own" nervous spent.
What we could do basicly guys according that summer hurt us badly, activity dropped so raid composition not even allow us get 25 people sometimes :
1) Is exactly understand every single encounter so time spent on explanation would be down to minumum.
2) Not make instance runs in about 15 min before raid invites and be ready to be as much close as possible to raid instance, since all of them in Northrend you could just be somewhere close to dalarn or dragonblight.
3) Make as much as possible attending to raid if you already signed, if you cant make it spend please 2-3min to log on our website and make afk thread for this evening msg, thats what for we had it btw.
4) As you already noticed raid composition usually goes to having all possible buffs and classes, so if you get invited prepare with food/elixirs/flasks for at least 10 wipes, no need to use on trash if you tied to die from some whirlwinds etc, but always use on the boss.
5) Make sure you have nothing that disctract you from raid as much as you allowed to do, raid just lasts 3 hours so off your tv, stop listening to music (If its Daralin's band, kk you allowed to Wink )
6) Follow please raid leader explanation, tips, assignements.

Thats basicly all... if we not follow this there are few ways of what will happen :

1) Guild will disband, ill probably stop playing or back to russian realms for some casual pvping and 2-3 evening raids per week.
2) Guild will drop in size and we would be struggling to get one proper 10-men group and almost not allowed to have completely 10-men 2nd group.
3) People start leaving 1 by 1, like Carbo did - 1) he want progress, the rest of things were around something personal between me and him but its doesnt matter, i thanks for him for his time, his job in raids and replacing Xarthan's ulduar group for 1 week.
4) Officer will leave ( I am trying my best to keep Xarthan in the guild, there is no precedent yet with him being disappointing but we realize we miles away from ulduar 25 and even some heroic raid achievements as 25-men guild).
5) We merge with other guild and just keep on the most loyal and skilled people (Thats i am totally against for in heart, but mind tied to it all the time, since i want receive fun by myself as well, however who said merges always successfull? they dont so can turn easily in 1) with guild disband and people spread out over entire realm.

I could type forever belive me,...
I love you all, i love this guild, i semi love this realm but very like battlegroup being played 2 years ago on Al'akir and 1.5 years ago on Vek'nilash. I put friendly relations over drops and guild progress, which mean nothing for me after being in SK-gaming and top 57 europe russian guild. But we need improve all the time guys and try to come with mind that if raid even not a job, you should still make some invistegations and prepeare by yourself to it with all possible things : own free time without being distracted, consumes (food/flasks etc).

Regards Roshen, guild master of Qui Vive.
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Sanctissimus

Sanctissimus

Posts : 18
Join date : 2009-05-12
Age : 33
Location : Uden, Netherlands

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptySun May 31, 2009 6:45 pm

I´m glad someone decided to make a forum topic about the raid tensions. I must say I am very glad to have roshen as guild leader and I appreciate his patience and communicative skills, both during and outside of raids.

In most guilds, the main problems boil down to a basic distinction between people who prioritize progress and efficiency over fun and social gaming and vice versa. I think most of our guild members, also due to their age, have found a decent balance between those two aspects and also remember to take WoW for what it is at heart: a game. Still, it is a game that takes a lot of time and effort and so it is understandable that people want progress. Certainly those who have been naxx-geared for some time now must be very eager to get better results, but the good news is many newer members, including myself, are getting geared up and more experienced in raids, so there will no doubt be progress in the long run.

Things will always go wrong and there can be many reasons, such as lack of preparation, lack of focus, bad luck, misunderstandings and internet troubles. Annoying, I agree, and we should work on it, but certain problems will be inevitable in any non-hardcore raiding guild. As I see it, the way to go is to be communicative, have constructive criticism, explain crucial fights very well, try to understand why things go wrong and always keep in mind WoW is just a game. As long as there is some mutual respect and understanding, the atmosphere will stimulate people to give their best and have a good time.

I personally prefer Roshen as the main speaker on ventrilo during raids. Random comments and insults by other members, such as 'eat the (*&*&% food, jeeeez' or 'come on, this is sooo easy, learn to focus' do not add anything, except a bad atmosphere and hurt feelings. I suggest you just squeeze your mouse mat after a wipe and let a better communicator like Roshen boost the morale for a next try. Some people say they don't mind harsh criticism...well, good for them, but it clearly does upset others and we need to take this into account. Everyone is trying to do what they can..some fail by lack of time for reading up on bosses, a bad internet connection or simply by missing something important. We all care for good raids and people will feel bad by themselves after making a mistake. It is good to point out to people what went wrong, but scoffing at them does not add anything useful.

I hope we can keep things a bit more relaxed in next raids. People need to feel comfortable and have fun in the first place. The progress will come...as I said, we are actually making progress as we speak, just not as fast as some people had hoped.

Sanctissimus
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t0xedomask

t0xedomask

Posts : 23
Join date : 2009-05-12
Age : 33
Location : London, UK

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptySun May 31, 2009 9:08 pm

Guys, u have to decide what u want. If we r not hardcore/imba/pro/etc guild, and playing just for fun. What do u want from ppl then??? All r playing just for fun, so wipes, vent spam, nofocus should be like part of just for fun guild, cos ppl like to do it. And sure ppl who wants progress will leave! How would u feel urself if u always rdy for raid, and can't have progress bcs of someone? It's simple decision. Don't be shocked. Ppl need motivation, minus dkp, raid kick, raid ban, officers, clan leaders and etc. But we don't want this kind of guild...so wipes and other things will continue;)
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Lithirrdys

Lithirrdys

Posts : 38
Join date : 2009-05-14

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptyMon Jun 01, 2009 5:02 am

The thing i hate most about raids, that drives me absolutely crazy, is wiping due to the incompence of someone else. im not talking disconnects, im talking things like, when half the dps cant move out of a red circle on a fight they have done at least 6 times before. things like that. While it does drive me absolutely nuts, i try my best to not show it (well, maybe in the tank channel) because trust me, i have been here before, and showing your frustrations in the raid chat or on vent just leads to someone with the oposing view point argueing back, then a fight breaks out, and the guild ends up in several small groups of people who all resent each other until finally one group goes to another guild.

This weeks raids have been admitedly bad. i cant think of anyone who hasnt messed something uop at least once this week, and with our normal raid leader not able to play, its been a double bummer. Carbo left (i think?) when the shit hit the fan for the first time, that just shows he has no commitment to making this work. he wants quick easy progress because hes bored of naxx? well so do i. ive done nothing but naxx for the last 6-7 months, and its boring. this is probably why the more experianced players say, "cant beleive we wiping on such an easy boss" because to them it is. unlike alot of people who are new to the game, ive played it since release, so it is very hard to understand where the new players should be in terms of awareness, skill, and itemization.

Back in the old old days of molten core, the guild i was in cleared it, killed the first boss in blackwing lair, and then got stuck on the 2nd, vaelstrasz. we were stuck there for 6 months almost, even the noob guilds of our server cought up. many, many of our well geared, good, experianced players left in those months, like carbo has. however, i stuck it out, and the feeling when we finally killed (well, you save him really, boooooo Sad) that son of a motherless ogre was awesome. If opeople get complacent now, or leave, it only serves to hinder us all. we are all friends on some degree or another, so we need to stay, focus up, read up on bosses we are unsure about, be prepared, and if you have ANY questions about itemization, talents, gear, abilities and rotations, talk to other people of your class! Ive been helping testament out with his frost spec, even though ive been always been unholy, his dps recently has shot up from what it once was. help your classmates out to improve, and in turn raids will improve, morale will improve, the feeling in general will improve.

With xarth firmly back for next week let us not criticise how he, or roshen lead raids or the guild. It is a tough strainuous job that they do not get any payment for, they do it FOR US. so dont spit it back in their faces, please, you may not agree with some tactics or methods but be patient, once we are back to one shotting everything then we can make some real progress. this wont happen if we are all against each other, so we need to drop our personal baggage at the door (or swirly portal with a skull in it) and just focus on raids. We wipe, something goes wrong, then roshen is right, calling out who caused it serves no purpose. that person already knows that they did bad, and they will improve if for nothing else then to prove they have what it takes to raid. and xarth is right when he says, you should ALL be eating your foods, there should be no need for feasts. Both of those guys have very valid points, but put them across differently, and that, my friends, is what makes them a good couple for leading. But thats just it, it is ONLY xarth and rosh who are leading, so PLEASE keep off the vent during fights unless you are asked specifically to talk (like calling out when to taunt etc) and please, if you have any negative comments, keep them off vent/raid chat, and discuss them after the run with xarth rosh or anyone really.

There is no place in raids for bitchyness, for winding people up, for arguements or for silly deaths. so lets just cut the crap, get back to focused raiding and gear up some people a little bit more for ulduuar
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Roshen
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Roshen

Posts : 99
Join date : 2009-05-12
Age : 35
Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptyMon Jun 01, 2009 5:25 am

Sadly need to run on work, but great post Lith. Week was really bad for us, started with wednesday 1000ms for me and ended with totally upset on Carbo's behaviour in Ulduar which broke me completely, totally cause me lost focus and any willing to do something for that evening. Also every single plan i plained for this week ruined as well due to people activity cause of summer and those 2 weekends. Ive been delayed family stuff just to make it Undying run, was logging into the game every 30 min - 1hour, since people were signed and should come at least 19:00, but everyone just did own stuff and came whenever wanted even Xarthan dropped from Ulduar cause couldnt be arsed to wait for so long, so wanted do i after whole day Saturday waiting but came and helped so we down Mimiron, which is really a big win for us and really something shine on the very bad week.
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Excoundrel

Excoundrel

Posts : 9
Join date : 2009-05-27

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptyMon Jun 01, 2009 5:41 am

It's hard for me to comment on this because i have had a really busy week in RL this week and especially so for the next week and a bit due to exams but here is my general feeling.

We have a good solid guild. Ok there will always be some people seeking greater things and we may jsut be a stepping stone for them but we cant do much about that (im not referring to Carbo here i understand why he left and it wasnt just due to wanting a better guild). Our raids are NOT that bad, we can't have drama over one week of bad raiding that was really next to a very good week of raiding the week before! People aren't on form all the time. It happens. Theres nothing you can do about it, in the end WoW is just a game and for me will always come second to real life, im sorry if that doesnt suit a dedicated raiding specification but its true and i feel is a sensible outlook to have.

There are definately people who don't quite know how to play their class and what Lith said is true; please talk to someone who does know and has been playing that class for a while! I remember joining QV as an MM hunter with like... 1000DPS. I talked to Nausea and sorted my survival spec and rotations and shot up to like 3-4k DPS. I'm not saying i know how to play my class completely because i dont have i still have to learn a lot but hopefully this should show people its not hard to learn your class.

I feel a bit dissapointed in myself because i wanted to do some 10 man Naxx this week etc. But like i said i have possibly the most important exams of my life coming up and i cant sacrifice ESSENTIAL nights of revision to raid. I did sign up yesterday but had to run my dad to hospital and forgot to post an AFK thread, it won't happen again.

As for raid leading. I like Roshen and Xarthan equally and them both working together creates possibly the perfect team. Roshen has a way of explaining things that everyone can understand and Xarthan just has this prescence on vent about him like every leader should have. When im on vent and Xarthan is talking im almost afraid to talk! And please don't criticise roshen openly on vent because i 'get the impression' (i dont know) he takes things to heart that even people who doesn't know in RL says. If you have problems im sure he is willing to discuss them in private. I know Carbo had problems and he dealt with them in his own way, i dont have much to say on the matter because me and carbo are very good mates and i feel equally as close to roshen so i am sitting on the fence.

But like it says in the guild description; we are not a hardcore raiding guild and i get the feeling not everyone understands that but i also feel that some people take that statement with too much complacency;
E.g. We aren't a hardcore raiding guild so they wont mind if i accidently ninja pull or they wont mind if i slack on a boss.
Thats not how it works; hardcore raiding guild simply means that the guild understands if you need to put RL before a raid.


Last edited by Excoundrel on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Roshen
Admin
Roshen

Posts : 99
Join date : 2009-05-12
Age : 35
Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptyMon Jun 01, 2009 8:07 am

Well nice post as well Ex, however you spent much time on Carbo part. Lets not turn this topic in "Why did Carbo left Qui Vive?" please, if you have questions why did he leave you need ask him directly. But since many people wonder i know why exactly Carbo left me and Excoundrel were 2 last person he spoke on vent before he left. And on first place it comes to progress, since my last words were addressed to him about this and my not willing progress and raid every day by myself. And Excoundrel about this part from your words (Im not referring to Carbo here i understand why he left and it wasnt just due to wanting a better guild) If someone not agree with leading or way of guild doing its also willing to find better place/guild.

Also there is something i want to speak with you on ventrilo is this sentance :
And please don't criticise roshen openly on vent because i KNOW he takes things to heart that even people who doesn't know in RL says.

Yes i am human and have all feelings which used humans to have, but seems you have affected by Carbo's leaving main topic of your post so went a bit wrong m8, so looking forward ventrilo session.
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Excoundrel

Excoundrel

Posts : 9
Join date : 2009-05-27

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PostSubject: Re: General raiding feeling   General raiding feeling EmptyMon Jun 01, 2009 8:38 am

Fair enough my sentence was slightly wrong - just the impression i got but rosh told me rightly Smile

and yes i suppose i was affected by carbo leaving myself. we were good friends! but nevertheless.
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