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 Emalon decision.

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Roshen
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PostSubject: Emalon decision.   Tue May 26, 2009 4:14 pm

As many people were wondered what actually was happened in VoA today i would like give small fast explanation. I do realize that invite for some nice achievement and probably first conquest emblem should be more than enough for some "random player" from the guild, however i did own decision in case i am not counting Kerbear as really random player its more like a realm friend for me, same goes for Mobiko. We do wiped 4th times on boss at nearly 10-15%, once Del respeced and we bring over 2 more dps, dps problem was solved totally and we one shooted, so my decision was more forced by some exciting mood and thankfull nature of person who came and helped us over 15min till WG would be lost. I do realize that decision more like show off but mind in society people do really appresiate that so its just a + for us on that but might a bit - to our overall progress. However i do appologized to Clafter before and can do one more time, also we speaked about that and Clafter do agreed that could do /roll in other way of doing that. I did /roll in my head for this evening though and putted some friendly relations towards Saurfang members over guild member and effort he did, so no fortuna was choosen but more like a harm gm decision Smile
Xarthan did said, dont invite pug players to 25-men raids, but after i explained reason with 4 wipes and WG fade in 15 min discussion was over. Also mind one more time Kerbear not just pug player its pretty wellknown warlock on the realm and she finished top4 dps, so its wasnt a just friendly shot since person wasnt carried. Well try avoid some kind of things in future, but you might be surprised from time to time from my decisions, however its just me and those purple pixels which i dont put over something that hard to explain with words and more come from heart and actually from mind, but when it comes to mind you starting to doubt, so heart goes first:)
P.S. Sorry again Clafter, nothing personal m8 Smile
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Carbo

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PostSubject: Re: Emalon decision.   Tue May 26, 2009 4:41 pm

Maybe Kerbear has nice characteristics but there were 23 Qui Vive members in the raid. I agree that at most, both players should /roll for the item. In my previous guild, the policy was to give them loot if the loot wasn't needed by guild members and to explain this to them before hand. We had wiped 4 times on the boss and I don't think the extra 2 dps made a whole lot of difference because we were doing pretty well on the enrage timer. Sure people come and help but the guild put the effort in wiping and at the end of the day it is mainly a guild run and we are using a dkp system, not just giving items away to pugs for free when Clafter would have had to pay dkp. Sure Kerbear is your friend but I think you acted too generous towards the PUGS and maybe should put guild members priority for gearing up. Also what are the chances warlock t8 pve gear will drop again. And yes Kerbear has no access to 25 man gear so the aim of getting set bonus for tier is a long shot as compared to guildies.

Just my reasons why even if we get PUGS, we are using DKP and loot should be kept within the guild. You may say the game is not about loot but people want to gear up their character and improve own and raid performance.

Sorry for the long rant but it is just my thoughts and it is nothing personal.
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Lithirrdys

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PostSubject: Re: Emalon decision.   Wed May 27, 2009 4:53 am

agree with carbo in part, but something i said yesterday i think wasnt understood properly. so ill explain in more detail. I can see from kerbears point of view, that if you cant roll on the loot, whats the point in going other then to help a friend (i.e. roshen). i dont have a problem per say with this person (i say random, to mean, a non guildie, regardless of who knows them) rolling on loot, but the problem i do have is 2 fold. if the randoms can roll, so should the guildies be allowed to. if theres a chance of a random winning an item, and therefore that item costing no dkp, then why should any item from VoA cost dkp. why should we all pay our hard earned dkp for an item which is just given away to people not in our guild. And as carbo said, weather you value items, or weather you couldnt care less about items, item upgrades directly improve our raid damage/healing/tanking which directly affects our progress. value items or not, you DO value progression, and if every week we do VoA we give away our items to random people, then over a period of time, we are shooting ourselves in the foot and impeding our progress. not sure about you, but i quite like the looks of some of those hard modes.

This is why ultimatly, most guilds have several officers, so when it comes to something like this, a rash choice is not made. the item is irrelevent now, but hte principle will directly have an impact on our progress, even if only a small one. im sure everyone has seen a wipe on 1% on a tough boss before.

as carbo said, sorry for ranting, i do have a habit of making long posts from time to time Razz
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Roshen
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PostSubject: Re: Emalon decision.   Wed May 27, 2009 5:47 am

Lithirrdys wrote:
if the randoms can roll, so should the guildies be allowed to. if theres a chance of a random winning an item, and therefore that item costing no dkp, then why should any item from VoA cost dkp. why should we all pay our hard earned dkp for an item which is just given away to people not in our guild

Exactly rolling over here will not solve the main problem of using some players under the guild, however its manner of good tone and after speech with Clafter he agreed that call on fortuna in rolling a pc dice would be fair to Kerbear so him as well, if Clafter would have won he will pay dkp - Yes.

Lithirrdys wrote:
And as carbo said, weather you value items, or weather you couldnt care less about items, item upgrades directly improve our raid damage/healing/tanking which directly affects our progress. value items or not, you DO value progression,

Read my post one more time, i said my choice was more show off according to exciting mood due to complete encounter 15min till WG fade (i did the same with Anubrekan ring to Daralin, if we back to past) i did realize that i let guild down on progression where 1% of wipe on Mimiron could cause by Clafter not having that item.

Lithirrdys wrote:
and if every week we do VoA we give away our items to random people, then over a period of time, we are shooting ourselves in the foot and impeding our progress.

Thats the sentance i actually couldnt left without quoting you Lith. You speak like i invite pug players every week, do i? Wink You also touched the topic of why not gather people for free ulduar 25-men loots of first bosses, the answer is very simple - we are not free for all epic guild and never will be, ill explained the the example with Voidreaver shoulders, till we actually made some proper attempts and didnt kill Vashj we didnt went for them in my previous guild, few people wasnt happy but after all thanked me once we were one-two shooting Vashj while other guilds who were spending 2 hours to clear Al'ar and VR trash so therefore 1 raiding day for free x2 shoulders were wiping on Vashj for few raiding days.

Lithirrdys wrote:
not sure about you, but i quite like the looks of some of those hard modes

I think everyone who were one foot in SWP like hard modes and hard encounters even if it cost you some month of your life and same ammount of grinding dailies for Mu'ru wipes or boosting mindless people for ZA bears who were just standing infront of the instance to not messing around.

Lithirrdys wrote:
This is why ultimatly, most guilds have several officers

On this only one replay - i am all against having complicated structure in the guild such as many officers, classleaders and raid leader. Why? Ill explain.
Complicated structure make guild existing easier from orginzation raids till people performance - its first step to put guild on hardcore step, since once ill be innactive officers will take their own decisions which i will not maybe appresiate or not agree with. Its works nice if we were living in one country and could just call to me and ask what way this should be done and if i agree on smth, well other way to sort out hard decisions idd, but i would like to be always around since i created Qui Vive from 2 people who were me and Tox for few weeks while had chance to raid already with Mok, Notorious, Decadence etc. Also i am not really rewrite Qui Vive as raiding guild in which we were before, people not online i am not making problems for this, people cant attend entire raid i not making problems from this either, people having afk during raid very often - i do make problem of it, since 3 hours per raiding day should be done with much afk as less possible, toilet, fast phone etc - just ordinary force major things. My overall time with Xarthan on ventrilo goes now to maybe around 30hours, i am quite satisfy with his performance and threat him more like a realm in game friend, rather than just officer who had some experience from past and help leading Qui Vive machine. I am more than happy just with Xarthan he know from which meat i am, i am thinking i know from what meat he is.
As you said we do have some small officers in the guild, those people dont have access to /o neither to some important guild decisions or progression thinking, but i do really like amazing help of Clarima on guild forum and some tips on encounters always, he is really person who always prepearing much and very quick learner as for first of his character. Leadriel ML position came in life after Daralin's ring once i got in my own decisions, me and Xarthan agreed on dkp system and quite appresiate Leadriel actually putted effort and helped us out.

I knew both of you will type here, i dont really have quotes to Carbo topic he said just general things which were said on ventrilo in raid 2 channel yesterday, but i couldnt ressist to answer on some of your Lithyrdiss, however its more like just simple request rather than confrontation. And since i cant close this thread (i dont know how, lol) i prefer to continue it on ventrilo, i know you cant speak but i can, its would be much better rather than catch me on some thoughts ill type here in wrong grammar tenses which will totally @#^%! up what i actually tried to say, so if possible please keep this thread clean for now.
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Clafter



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PostSubject: emmhh   Wed May 27, 2009 7:29 am

Hey again guys, most add something here. Maked up my mind about yesterday. I agree with lith and carbo, i hope never this happend again. I know u mean it good roshen, but this was a mistake. SPECIAL : Kerbear is not even using those legs. I saw him in dalanar with heroic legs and full pve gear. I asked him "why are u not even using those uber pants". He told me its my pvp gear.. And he said "oh i forgot to change them". His not even using it...

The reason why i said its okay yesterday is. I normaly get 1-2 part each raid if non. Iam not gready this is just a game.


Last edited by Clafter on Wed May 27, 2009 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Clafter



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PostSubject: hm   Wed May 27, 2009 7:40 am

Or nvm just end it. Tired of talking about this Razz
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Lithirrdys

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PostSubject: Re: Emalon decision.   Wed May 27, 2009 12:02 pm

Clafter wrote:
Or nvm just end it. Tired of talking about this Razz

what he said. i think we are all done on this topic
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