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 To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...

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Roshen
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PostSubject: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:12 am

First of all let me all thank you for your time in Qui Vive. The guild has its own history starting from Al'Akir and Vek'nilash realms. Guild was pvp orientied and pretty well known as maybe guild Doom Squad now, apart that we not made movies and arenas werent up. I was officer and raid leader all the time rather than Gm, but sometimes when Gm's passed i took over of the guild and keep going without loosing people every day, whoever pvp guilds has less motivations also we were doing some casual zg, aq20 runs so guild was sorted.
But back to topic about possible merge with Fixation which is more like happens but would be nice if you read this and tell your thoughts. By myself i am totally up for it, raid leader and gm seems nice person with damn interesting uk accent, very experience tanks and healers with separtion on duties and high knowledge and reaction on their own class (raiding Ulduar with 6 healers *cough* *cough*). The merge will solve the problems of our 2 guilds : for Qui Vive its summer raiding break with keeping loosing people due to immature guild chat of some people agony and loosing people due to not enough life going on in the guild, its like in relations between men and women if men not suprise women anymore or other way, relations going to ruin soon or later, whatever you doing you should keep moving and improve all the time, however Qui Vive problem not only summer activity we have hidden problem for people who put raiding life of guild not serious and by that i mean not activity and neither flasks/food buff but rather raid prepearness, tactic knowledge and reaction etc; for Fixation merge will solve problem with their 25-men team which will happens with or without help soon or later anyway, yes its question of time so till we have "bird in our hands" should look and accept this quick, also Fixation already liked our coopeartion raids, so its about time to get use to each other and keep going as one big family. Merge will bring us to 30-40 people online so some possible 10-men would be going once 25-men sorted or even heroics.
How it happens, what new guild, what about new rules, what about dkp system?
Its happens at tuesday, wednesday around 70% already discussed rest 30% depends from you guys. Why so low % to the guild discussion, cause when it comes to hard times i am as guild master stopping playing ostrige game and putting head of sand and starting acting quick and furious.
There is no new guild name plained, we just join Fixation without putting applications and we do accept their guild rules such as structure of guild - gm, officers and some classleaders - its not much complicated you shouldnt worry about that. This was the main problem and worry of gm of Fixation, he was very worry about the unique of Fixation, the guild that was exist for 3-3.5 years with few officers who still loyal to gm, so i agreed it would be stupid to just rename and change some rules according to full right merge in meaning we are one big guild now. For me Qui Vive history mean smth but not to much to put nose high and keep on stubborn things. Not the guild name but people make guild name.
Might be the most interesting question for many of you, but sadly not for me, what would be new dkp system looks like. I am totally vanished from this topic since i dont care, however i do agree this should be done, so Xarthan and Larrix today in the evening will disscus this aspect and get to compromis in between how to unite 2 guilds dkp system or just reset both guilds currents or maybe dkp system just for Ulduar 25 and coming in future IceCrown Citadel.
By myself not sure if ill be online today (06.22.09) i am raiding Ulduar 25 on other realm with guild by not being their member and not pretending on any drops with progress 10/14 Ulduar both 10 and 25-men.
Is there would be place for me in the new guild such as raid spots etc? I believe mostly it depends from you if it comes to 25-men Ulduar. However dont forget its summer and also by speaking with Larrix, he said he giving opportunity to raid to everyone and never had much complains about rotations, neither did you in Qui Vive by mine i think, they running substitude dkp system also so dkp isnt issue, just some rotation when its more than 25 online to get proper setup for some encounters.
What is new place for Roshen/Xarthan in new guild, what happens with our gbank?
About gbank i cant say much guys, but if its comes as one guild we probably unite it, however will ask Xarthan to sort this out with Larrix by themselves. About Xarthan new spot i have no idea either but Larrix will offer Xarthan officer/class leader of tanks spot from what i heard yesterday, which mean permanent spot in raids. About myself i am not going to be co-gm or officer in new guild, i will be not in every 25-men ulduar raid, since i am not asked for that, ill be on more social raid leader spot with leading raids for people who just reached lvl 80 and raids to gear up people depends on online it would be or 10 or 25 raids (naxx, os, maly etc...possible 10-men ulduar for people to get know to first bosses encounters). So trying pleased and help new guild after merge as much as possible by myself. However i am plaining to take some small rest from game for few days - weeks, a bit overplayed on russian realm by boosting my alt in 2 weeks from lvl 70 to 80 and getting in next 8 days epic hero achievement setted on 80% and done in pug even some 10-men ulduar hardmodes.
There is alternative on calling our guild for summer holidays and back to 25-mens at September, but i know guild will decrease in size even more, so dont want to take chances, you shouldnt worry about me either once if i am offline for sometime, i am sorted from all points of view, either its comes to raiding or real life stuff, but as i said and repeat once more, i dont have serious plans over russian realms over Saurfang, though even i hate Saurfang pretty much, for being so much innactive, small casual guilds overcrowd communuty.

Regards Roshen, guild master of Qui Vive.

P.S. Done hesitate to to write your vision, but dont ask many questions please on some i really cant answer by myself at the moment. By not being rude i warned new guild master for few our people such as arrogant behaviour (in my eyes at last) of 2 members and 3-5 members having bad raid performance since of bad pc's / fps. He said "Dont worry Roshen, will get there m8, ill try do everything that possible to our members feeling comfortable" But ofc we know together we cant please everyone, however ill try to help once 25-men ulduar raid will not need another resto druid by having Stink, Blindy online.


Last edited by Roshen on Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:15 am

And here we go set of rules and guild charter (thanks for presenting this for people view Larrix).

[CODE OF CONDUCT]

This can be simply put as "Good players, Good People", that's what our guild strives to be. Good players who are exceptional at their class, but also good people who can hold an intelligent conversation and respect their fellow guild mates (and wow players).

Treat your fellow players with respect, whether in game or on any public forums. Your actions reflect upon the entire guild, and any misconduct or disrespect of fellow players will not be tolerated.

The following are not tolerated and may result in disciplinary action or immediate removal:

1. Racism, sexism, etc. - you get the picture, be nice!
2. Harassment, whether of guildies or non-guildies.
3. Spamming. Don't do it.
4. Hacking, sploiting, ninjaing, deliberately wiping a group, etc.

The guild tag makes each of you a representative of Fixation. Act the way you want Fixation to be remembered.


[BEHAVIOR EXPECTED OF FIXATION MEMBERS]

If you abuse these rules you may be removed from the guild.

1. Guild chat:
* Don't insult your guildies.
* If you ask for help and do not receive it immediately, don't get angry and abusive.
* Guild chat is private and should only be discussed with guildies unless you have an Officer's approval.

2. Intra-guild interaction:
* Be nice to your guildies, if you think someone is lacking in some way, try to be constructive rather than telling them to learn2play.
* Try to work as a team, ask on guild first if you're looking for someone for an instance/quest

3. General behaviour:
* Treat people with respect.
* Don't ninja or deliberately wipe a group (no matter how much they suck).
* Don't be rude to PuGs (no matter how much they suck). If you really can't cope or have to leave, apologize and exit quietly via stage left.
* When dealing with Alliance, please try to do so with a little class.

4. Raids and instances:
* Follow the raid leader's instructions.
* Keep vent clear. Only speak if it is relevant and important to the task ahead.
* Be prepared. Turn up repaired, with reagents and plenty of consumables.
* Make sure you are in the correct guild channels before start of raid.
* No loot drama. You are expected to regularly check you own DKP on the forums to ensure its accuracy (don’t wait till the last minute and expect it to be fixed while we’re in the middle of distributing loot). If you have an issue, it should be handled outside of raid times.
* Do NOT try and talk to the raid leader(s) about issues that aren't raid related. They have enough to worry about; it can wait until after the raid. If it isn’t an emergency, use whispers rather than vent. Your first line of communication should be your class leader, if present.
* NO Main Switching – we like to get returns on investments we spend alot of time on.

Guild Removal

We're a pretty easy going guild and there is some flexibility with these rules in the context of making jokes. As long as you're not an asshat, you should be fine. However, the following things may result in your removal:

* Pissing off the GM or one of the officers!
* Breaking any of the rules listed above. We expect you to act like adults, most of the time. Adult language is largely fine if it's not being used to insult guildmates. That said, if someone tells you you've crossed a line, back off.
* You're annoying. We don't like drama! If there are constant complaints about you it's not going to endear you to the powers that be.



GUILD STRUCTURE & RESPONSIBILITIES
1. GM / Raid Leader
- Responsibilities - General guild maintenance and arbitration. Handles raids, directs Classleaders on what needs to be done to keep the raids successful, such as new policies, required gear/consumables, recruitment needs, etc.

3. Class Leaders / Raidleader
- Responsibilities - Responsible for everything in their class, invites, kicks, improving players, making sure those players are prepared.
- Handles day-to-day operations, polices there classes.

4. Raider
- Responsibilities - Players who should be able to perform well skill-wise, attitude-wise, and with a reasonable level of gear within a raid of our current level.
- Gaining a Raider Position - A player must prove their worth by going through initiation and being promoted to the Raider rank.


6. Initiate (Reasonably small)
- Responsibilities - Initiates must prove to the guild that they are able to raid effectively with the guild. As such they are held to all standards of the Raider rank. During this 2-4 week period they will be evaluated by their class leader, the raid leader, as well as the other officers. Initiates may only be promoted directly to the Raider rank having successfully completed their initiation period, otherwise they are removed from the guild by the end of the initiation period.
- Gaining an Initiate Position - A player must fill out an application form at http://fixation-wow.com/viewtopic.php?t=4 The application will be reviewed by the guild with the ginvite decision coming down to the Guildmaster and Classleaders.



RECRUITMENT REQUIREMENTS
1. Over 16.
2. Stable Internet connection, low latency, infrequent disconnects.
3. Able to consistently show up to raids.
4. Able to use ventrilo.
5. Basic communication skills including a fluent understanding of English, the ability and willingness to read appropriate forums, etc.
6. Basic Civility, must be able to communicate with
7. Fair understanding of their class, able to gear and spec themselves correctly for raiding PvE content, willing to do research and/or take constructive criticism.



GENERAL RAID PROCEDURE
1. The raid's schedule will be posted on the Guild Calendar at the beginning of the raiding week (Monday night/Tuesday morning). Anyone unable to make a raid is expected to post in the absence forum as a courtesy, otherwise it's generally assumed you will make the raid.
2. Players are expected to be online, un-grouped, and flagged down 15 minutes before the posted raid time. They're expected to be at the instance fully prepared 10 minutes prior to the first pull time to deal with "summonable" items, organization of buffs, etc.
3. Raid composition is at the discretion of the raid leader, as such, invites will be chosen from the available players online during the 15 minutes prior to the first pull.
4. Raid first pull should be at roughly the posted time.
5. If for whatever reason the raid cannot be filled or required class balance cannot be fulfilled the raid will be canceled and/or rescheduled as quickly as possible to a max of 30 minutes after "first pull" time.
6. Any players online at raid times are expected to raid, or to be ready to be invited incase a replacement is needed.



WAITLIST PROCEDURE
- Any player on the waitlist gains attendance and DKP as though they were in the raid.
- A player may play on an alt, or not be logged in at all. However, we need to be able to reach a waitlisted player so they need to either be on vent or give us some means of notifying them (if the alt is unguilded, or you're using some alternate form of communication...vent, etc. you MUST let the person in charge of the waitlist know).


Last edited by Roshen on Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:20 am

After reading guild rules only 1 thing ill ask Fixation to change if they agree 67% attendance, forget about it guys, its summer - have fun and keep doing your own stuff rl>game, remember that as bible articles.

Updated 30min after...
Attendance rule sorted, deleted, Fixation doesnt require any special % of attendance anymore.


Last edited by Roshen on Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:10 am

New DKP System

The new DKP system is a closed bidding system. How this works is that when an item is made available for bidding, you will whisper 1 and only 1 bid to the master looter. The person who bids the highest amount of dkp will pay that amount and receive the item. There is a minimum bid of 20 dkp, but the maximum you can bid is only limited by the amount of dkp you have.

Spending DKP via bidding on items

DKP is only used in 25 man raids, and can be spent via a simply closed bidding system. The method for bidding is as follow.

For ease of use all bids must be a multiple of 5

1: The master looter will place an item up for bidding.
2: The people wishing to purchase the item will whisper their secret bid to the master looter.
3: The master looter confirms that the person with the highest bid has that amount of DKP available, if so, he announces that that person has won the item.
4: The dkp is then deducted from that person's available dkp. He pays the full price he bid, there is no reduction in cost no matter how big a gap there may be between highest and second highest bid (or if there is even a second bid at all), what you bid is what you pay!

Minimum Bids and Tied Bids

Minimum Bid is 20 dkp that is, you must bid at least 20 dkp to purchase any item.

In the event of a tie, which is most likely to occur when more than one person bids minimum price, the tied bidders will roll to determine who receives the item. There is no second round of bidding, nor will any secondary value determine who receives the item. Unless bids are withdrawn, only a roll will determine the receiver of the item.

Starting

DKP will be earned at a rate of :

5 DKP if you are ontime in the raid instance.
5 DKP per hour we raid.
5 DKP per boss we kill (10 DKP if its a new boss)
5 DKP if you stay till raid end.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:43 am

This is the right move forward for the guild. The guild looks committed and they are successful which is what a fair number of the members of this guild want.

From a personal point of view the new guild isnt the right place for me as they already have 3 holy paladins and i'm sure i'll get squeezed in the long run. As i've seen this coming for the past week (it has been obvious lol) i've put in a couple of applications for other guilds and have been accepted by one on a trial basis. This is in no way a reflection on any of the leadership of this guild; you both do a brilliant job and i'm happy that you guys will find a new home. I take this moment to thank you all for the help and assistance you've given me and i seriously wish you all the luck in the world for this merger. Look after yourselves Smile
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:02 am

Sadly you made your choice pretty fast Charismi, they do have only 1 holy paladin and you missed yesterday raid by being offline on raiding invites, was very sad actually. Wish you have luck in whatever you doing m8 and catch you later on.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:15 am

I'm basing my decision on the details from their armory pages. 3 very well equipped holy paladins.

I missed yesterdays raid due to not noticing the message of the day and i regret missing it as i would have got to see the guild in action (i still cant understand why we swapped from using calender to MotD but thats beside the point as i should have been more aware).

It wasn't a fast decision by any stretch of the imagination, trust me on that. Its a case of not wanting to be left out and i can see that happening. I honestly wish you all the best in the future, a majority of this guild deserve it.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:54 am

Not for that i spent 20 hours on ventrilo with speaking with you totall, to left you out Smile
But well every person is blacksmith of their own fate its truth, however pretty sad aye.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:04 am

I'm starting to feel a fool because Xart just told me that they only have 1 and he checked this out with their GM. I'm more than happy to tell the other guild i don't want to leave a group of players i've grown very fond of. I want to be a part of progress and to see the game, this is my only concern. Aww such an embarrassment to myself at times
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:19 am

You are forgiven come back Smile
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:04 am

Thank you Rosh and Xart Smile *looks sheepish for next few days*
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:22 am

Charismi wrote:
Thank you Rosh and Xart Smile *looks sheepish for next few days*
I was already wondering why you left so soon, we don't know anything yet about the other guild, except that they are nice to play with.
I whouldn't recklessly leave.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:43 am

Wow, Roshen, looks like you have put a lot of effort into making this merge successfull and informing us well about the changes we can expect. Although I don´t agree with all decisions you have made to combat qui vive´s summer crisis, I respect your choices and the time and patience you have put into this.

Sadly, despite my new video card, I cannot turn up graphics and raid smoothly. It´s probably my processor. Since I have bigger worries now, such as my thesis and summer school, I probably won´t be online a lot for the next few months. I do intend to come back and when I do, I will use a new computer and a stable internet connection. My frequent disconnects, low fps and lagspikes have annoyed many of you and have been a big frustration for myself, so I won´t do 25-men raids anymore on this computer.

Maybe I didn't read everything well, but I'm unsure what's the policy on member activity in fixation. I hope I can just be a member and occasionally do some 10-men raiding until I have more time. If not, well, then I'm just putting my account on hold for a while and wish you all the best in fixation.

Best,

Sanctissimus
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:46 pm

someones been a busy boy. it all sounds fine, although i have to admit, i HATE bidding systems. the last one i was apart of, my fellow warlocks (i was a lock at the time) forced the price on any item i wanted to be insanely high, becauase i weas most active. the average cost on that system was 47, the avaerage amount per item i payed, was 112. The current QV system worked better then that does, imo, but it is worth reminding that no system is perfect. saur, if you screw me on the trinket, i will feast upon your cold dead brain! and yea... another thing... not that im saying there should be one, but is there any prio on tokens? or on 2h weps for dk tanks? =D
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:41 pm

Yes Viktor for sure would be place in guild with not the best performance and not many active somehow its called "guild friend" or smth and for sure you are still the full right member apart when it comes to progression raids or just pretty hard encounters which already need all possible maximum gear + great pc. I would be able to lead smth in between of Ulduar 25men for sure, Calendar hopefully help that.
As to Lith, if we speak about Ulduar i am by myself against any tank priority or others, it was always like that tanks was getting prio on t2-t4 to face Naxx/SSC, after t3 and t5 were distributed before all raid members. Since once you step forward in progression you do realize not tought tank make difference but geared dps and healers wise as well. Also from what i saw how Larrix and Xarthan did at Thursday and yesterday there wasnt a word for someone having priority over someone which i found pretty correct and understandable.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:36 am

fair enough, coming from a dps background i know how annoying it is when tanks get prio, i just wanted to be clear about that one.

as for a closed single bid system, still not suure i like that one. i mean, plate tanks, there is only 3 i think in total. 2 of those can use block, alot of the random non set items have block. so one of them will pay a decent amount, and the other will get it almost free. where as a non block tank, will still have to out bid both. doesnt strike me as fair if, for example, block shoulders/belt drop, saur is the only block tank in raid, gets both for minimum, then +armour pants drop, and saur still has almost the same dkp as when the run started, and has a very high chance of winning those, meaning 3 items for him, none for the rest.

i guess one solution to that is do how we did, 1-2 main spec item limit, but hten again, if you have 1 guy on 200 dkp who has won 2 items, and another guy of the same type on -100, that would mean the -100 gets to have it which isnt really fair either. hmmm. i dont how their system was before, but ours was about as fair as you could get it, so why shift to a system that has more flaws, and is open to more exploiting?
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:40 am

I guess it has to come down to people not being greedy and making clear what item(s) they are aiming for. This worked when we were raiding BWL; people had agreements not to burn each other on items, you still had to pay a reasonable amount but you didnt go all out to make someone pay all their DKP for 1 item. Bidding is a funny system but we are moving to them have to accept their rules about such things.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:46 am

Hello there guys, i thought i would make a quick post after reading this thread regarding the dkp.

The closed bid system is not one we used in Fixation either, we had a open bid system for all to see in the raid channel.

After discussions with Mr Roshen,Xarthan and other officers, we decided to switch to closed bidding system.

The whole point of closed bidding is that noone can see bids. If you want a item, you whisper the ML with how much you are prepared to spend and thats it.
The highest bid he recieves will win that item for the amount you whispered to the ML.

Obviously, the ML will disregard 'silly' bids like for example DPS bidding on tank gear for offspec when a fulltime tank has made a bid, DPS gear for healers etc etc unless no main spec characters make a bid.

This system is also very new to us, as i said above we used an open bid system, so it will take a while for all of us to to get used to it.

Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:57 am

Larrix wrote:
After discussions with Mr Roshen

Hehe, /flex sorry for offtopic Wink
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:29 am

DKP should be a system to fairly distribute equipment to those who have made the time and effort to earn it. Whatever system a guild uses there will be those who dislike it because they will feel they haven't benefitted as well as someone else. But those people are usually those who haven't spent the time and effort, and will usually feel agrieved because they did not get the piece of equipment they wanted.

A simple system if to give points only those who attend a raid, and those points will slowly accumulate over time. when a piece of "loot" drops those with points can bid, from the points they have earned, until they run out of points or drop out of the auction. those who have attended most and had least items of loot, will of course have most points, and thus have more chance of getting the piece or "loot", those points will then be deducted from the winners running total. simple, means attending raids is important, and at times you may have to pass on loot because you are waiting for the BIG drop.

Now not ideal, its where most DKP systems started, and there are more complicated systems now, because guild have gone beyond raid size, so some people cannot attend as there are no spaces. Also this system can lend to a lot of downtime as the auction takes place, especially over a much wanted item. Now i am unsure about the secret bid system, this feels you could burn a lot of DKP, just because we are unsure what a piece of loot is worth to each person, some want an upgrade, even if it is slight, whilst others will hold out for the BIG drop.

Whatever system the new combined guild uses, it needs to be fair and consistent. Attendence and effort needs to be supported. there should be no way anyone can bully the loot master because he is a Tank, the top DPS, only mage whatever, the system should reward those who have earned the points, and points should be earned.

I don't have an answer to what system should be used, just felt a few comments were needed.
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PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:18 am

hmm this system i dont really like but i will live with it...

with this system you can have a person with a lot of DKP bid for an item he really wants but then be outbid by someone who has already won a few items but bid a ridiculous amount? It's almost like there is no sense of "earning" your items... because you earn DKP but can be outbid by someone with a fair bit less than you but spent more... and the next time the item comes around you could bid but yet again be outbid by someone with less DKP than you.

There will eventually be people bidding ridiculous amounts for items just to secure it and it will take a long time to build that DKP up again. This raises the problem that if EVERYONE is doing this are we allowing Minus DKP? because it is inevitable that if everyone is bidding lots JUST to make sure they get an item we will get to a stage where people cant even meet the minimum DKP bid!

This further raises a problem.. if we are basing this on making sure the top bidder has the required DKP what will happen if all bidders do not have the required DKP for the bid? Does it go to the player with most DKP that bid? and what bid would it go for? the highest bid or the bid that person put forward?

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Roshen
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Posts : 99
Join date : 2009-05-12
Age : 34
Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

PostSubject: Re: To be or not to be? Some thoughts about merge...   Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:27 pm

The merge was completly done tonight after great raiding evening. All members who are still in Qui Vive, could /w Larrix to get invite to Fixation. Thats a great thing for both of guilds and i want to gratz everyone with integration as one new community. Of course more testing on your pation + new rules would be done, its your choice accept it or not, but i think well be fine and keep doing stuff as one new family. Leave Qui Vive problem in past, look at bright future and always act and react in the way you wanted to receive back. At the end its just a virtual world where more important are citizens who fullfill it. Guild isnt guild master - guild are people.
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